Transform Your Pain and Embrace Self-Mastery with Jojopahmaria Nsoroma

 Welcome to Season 2!

This podcast is a combination of two conversations I had with author and wisdom keeper Jojopahmaria Nsoroma.

In part one Jojopah and I delve deep into embracing self-mastery, healing the pain body, and ascending to higher timelines. The conversation is an enlightening journey filled with wisdom and insights that we can all apply to our own lives.

She shares her personal journey of transformation, from breaking free of the strong Black woman stereotype to reconnecting with her ancestral wisdom and the Dagara medicine wheel traditions.

 Her book, "Wisdom Walk to Self Mastery," serves as a guide for those seeking holistic healing beyond traditional talk therapy.

During the episode, Jojopah explores the concept of timelines, highlighting the choice we have in determining which timeline - lower or higher octave - we want to embody. 

She emphasizes the power of connecting with our divine consciousness and serving our purpose with love and community-centered focus.

Jojopah says: "We really are here to learn how to ascend in our consciousness during our lifetime. Where I start out as a child should not be where I I end up as an elder."

In part two, Jojopah answers questions from the Mother Tree community:

How to create an altar,

Are ancestors the same as other divine helpers?

How do you hold space for others rather than trying to save them?

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Jojopah’s Bio

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma is the Owner and Steward of Higher Expectations Consulting Collaborative and The Wisdom Walk Institute for Self-Mastery. She is also the creator of the Wisdom Walk to Self-Mastery program at the Alma Center in Milwaukee, WI, and the author of the book by the same name. At any one time, Jojopahmaria a teacher of emotional and spiritual intelligence who influences personal, professional, and institutional change, an organizational development specialist who promotes justice, equity, inclusion and diversity as the foundations for organizational and community wellness, a podcaster, a YouTube creator, and a modern-day shaman and self-mastery sage, dedicated to using ancient indigenous wisdom to support the evolution of the human services field. She’s also a classical pianist and a classic movie buff.

TRANSCRIPT

Aminata Desert Rose:
Welcome. Welcome to the Mother Tree Network. I'm Aminata, Desert Rose plant walker firewoman, and I am with the queen. One of my favorite people, Jojo Pa, Maria, and Saroma. Hello, Jojo Pa.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Hello, Amanda. What a deep pleasure to see you especially today. Yeah.

Aminata Desert Rose:
And we're gonna get into that about today because I know that this is an important astrological moment.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Aminata Desert Rose:
How I like to start every interview, judge a pot, is, with what is good. So tell me, for you today, what is good?

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
First thing that I was able to get up out of bed Earlier than usual and not be in pain and not be in fear And not be in suffering, but actually to have my heart feeling full And being in anticipation of what this day would bring. Yes.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Yes. Wow. And I know for some of us, you know, that is a miracle to wake up without out the fear and the pain and and anticipation of the day. And

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Absolutely. You

Aminata Desert Rose:
know? And and you are a woman of purpose, a woman of a, of a of a stature who's been around a minute. So, I so I'm assuming that it wasn't every day that you could wake up this way.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
No. No. Not at all.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Yeah.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Not at all.

Aminata Desert Rose:
It was a journey that got you here.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Oh, yes. Yeah.

Aminata Desert Rose:
And, you know, judging

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Fox Yes.

Aminata Desert Rose:
That's really what I wanna get into today. You know, I really wanna, I told people when I was inviting them to come and be a part of this conversation, I told him that you were the one of the most positive people in my life. And I have a lot of really positive people in my world because I've curated a world. You know what I mean?

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Absolutely. Yes.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Yeah. And every time I talk to you, you start with gratitude. Mhmm. So have you always been that way?

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
No. You would not have recognized me years ago, Because I was very much walking my mother's path, in Terms of I have to be a strong independent black woman, and I've gotta beat the man at his own game. And into that, For me, it was quasi corporate grind of human services, national office, situations, And very much living life as if that was my purpose. So one of competition, One of I've gotta be right, I've gotta be first, and I've gotta know it all, which is very much, You know, the monarchical dominance mentality of Europe and other places, but definitely from Europe. So I had no idea how deeply embedded my conditioning was In a reaction to ancestral wounds, to historical trauma. And so I was doing what I thought was the right thing to do, but thank goodness Because we're all given purpose whether we know it or like it or not, and so I was never quite satisfied. I was a great achiever. I achieved a a lot a lot, for, You know, just the English major degree I had, I would get into places of leadership.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And I it was never about me hunting for a job. It always came to me. People reached out to me or if somebody knew somebody that said, You know, go here. But, I can remember standing in my living room, when I had made it, And I looked around at my beautiful furniture, beautiful surroundings, and I felt like a mess. It wasn't bringing me joy. And, that began to open me up to the paradox. Why is that? Why Is the external world so nice, so in order, but internally, I'm just feeling a mess. Yeah.

Aminata Desert Rose:
You know, in your book, wisdom walk to self mastery, one of the the stories that and there are so many great story, so I highly recommend this book. Wisdom Walk to Self Mastery. One of the stories you tell us about these beautiful red Mary Janes that you had and how you did not wanna give those up even when they start to hurt your feet.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
I love it. That's what I'm going through right now with my beautiful red Mary Jane color car, that I love. Yeah. I love that story because, you know, there I am still squeezing into him and hurting. And my mama looked down at my feet and said, child, What what's wrong with you? It's over here, child. Let me check-in with your shoes. And she touched where the toe was, and she's new. Like, girl, You can't fit those anymore.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Take those shoes off. I gotta buy you some new shoes and I was just upset, you know. And, I use that story as an analogy for how we I don't care whatever growth Opportunity comes whether we have been working for it or not. When it's time, we Just go into almost a panic because it's so much easier to hold on to what we know even if it is painful versus Stepping out into the land of the unknown and having to open up to the new. And, you know, it's also an analogy for what we're going through as a human species on the planet right now. We we have no idea How much we have grown just over the last 25 years as a human species, but we're still operating Out of these old paradigms, these old belief systems, you know, the trauma from historical pain and ancestral wounds, we really still are very much operating out of those paradigms and, you know, trying to make it work, trying to get it to fit, And it's not. So, yeah, there's a lot of grief, a lot of frustration, a lot of Fear that people are dealing with right now, because of that, and then you add on just the every Everyday challenges and adversities. Right.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
But, yeah.

Aminata Desert Rose:
It it's like we're outgrowing, like you said, outgrowing those old shoes, which

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
may have it.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Which may have been nice, or maybe they weren't even so nice. Like, you had nice Mary Janes. But but they could have been really beat up ugly shoes. But, one of the things I like about what you talk about Jojo Pa is, First of all, I just wanna be honest and say that, you know, I consider you a friend and a mentor, and you really have guided me, Jojo Pa. And, one of the things that you've really helped me understand is the pain body. Like, I heard I think I may have heard the pain body in a yoga context, but I never really knew what a pain body was until you started talking about it with me. And I saw how I was, kind of addicted to my pain body or feeding my pain. Can can you say more about that?

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Sure. And thanks to Eckhart Tolle, who I consider a walk in. He's just amazing for that language and for that defining of Any pain that we go through, any trauma pain that doesn't get addressed, doesn't get processed either Right after or shortly after it happens, that then gets kind of pushed down into our psyche and begins to form what we call a pain body. And pain body can also be considered, the remnants of post traumatic stress too. I will link it to that. It it's not always as severe or as noticeable as post traumatic stress symptoms can be, but it definitely is coming out of that because, you know, pain and, you know, all of what we are is energy. And Einstein said energy cannot be destroyed, but it can be transformed. So when we don't address it, when we don't take on transforming it, it.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Then it's still around. And it's like if you put air into a balloon, Put energy into a balloon, right? After a couple of days, what happens? That balloon is gonna shrink because energy doesn't wanna stay trapped. It wants to move. It wants to transform. And that's to me is the, the real gift in any kind of trauma pain we go through Or any emotional pain we're carrying. We need to know it wants to come out. And so it will come knocking. You will get into the looping of a situation.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Maybe different players this time, maybe a different environment, But the pain you feel will be exactly that same pain. And it's like you keep going around the barn, you know, going around that cycle until finally you say, you know what? I'm ready to let this go. This isn't working for me anymore. And that the pain body really is happy when that happens To a degree, but it also gets conditioned. It wants to be fed. So then it'll start telling you, oh, you can't get rid of this. This is who you are. You know? And like you said, we start to identify with the pain.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
We start to think that we're a pain. We create a culture around the pain, and give it license to keep us, right, not living in the full truth of who we are. And so the pain body, again, it's so important. It's so powerful to have that language and that understanding, because We can then take on transforming it and shifting it. Yeah. Yeah. Which is what my book is about. It is.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
It is. Absolutely.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Wisdom walk to self mastery. And I wanna, I think what what's What's different about what you're saying or maybe just what impacted me was that, you were like, well, you were reminding me I have choice as to whether or not I, you know, view a situation with a certain lens so that I can get a pain body hit.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Right. Right.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Which is kinda crazy that I was trying to get a pain body hit. I actually Exactly. You know? I I, So that's one thing is I want people to think about if you keep feeling like people are bullying you, if you keep feeling like, they don't appreciate you when you work or, you know Absolutely. Partner doesn't listen to you or whatever that repetitive thing is, perhaps you're reaching for something to give you a a jolt of pain.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Absolutely. It's helpful. Keep you keep you waddling in it.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Yeah. And and then you said

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
It's so much safer.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Well, it is. It's a it's it's safer. It's familiar.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
But it's destructive. It's familiar. It's safer, and it's destructive. And, You know, healing is about a courage journey. It requires courage, patience, and persistence, Because to heal, you have to step into the unknown. You are not gonna heal yourself with what you know. And this is why the role of a therapist, a really good therapist, is so important because it's somebody who's not your family member. It's not your friend.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
So somebody who can be totally objective and somebody who can really help you navigate through into this new land, This new territory about who you really are. And that's what my therapist did for me. It was just Amazing and so important because I had come to the borders of what I knew about myself. I couldn't have imagined, like you Said, Jennifer, you so much gratitude and so much love. And, yeah, I can imagine myself like that. Not at not at all, But it was there waiting for me to access it, but I had to leave. You know, what I had outgrown by that time, I had to leave that behind. Yeah.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Yes.

Aminata Desert Rose:
And I I'm thinking about your book. You you talk about Melodoma Some and, Sambunsoo

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Soma. Teacher. Yes. My teachers. Yeah.

Aminata Desert Rose:
And the the Dagara, medicine and medicine wheel, and and you are wisdom keeper in that tradition. Right?

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Yes. Yes. And what does that mean? Well, you know, Melodomus Obengfu coming from Burkina Faso, The land of the great ancestors in West Africa. Were given this task to bring this ancient wisdom into the Western psyche, and Through lots of sacrifice and lots of not being, you know, in their village, in the comfort of Their village, to have to come into a whole new world, a whole new experience of being a human, you know, it's just amazing. But what I learned from them is that this medicine chooses you, And it wants to live. So despite imperialism that happened, the conquest Of Africa by the Europeans, where they did like what they did here with the First Nations people is tell them tell them that your Sacred ways your religious practices are of the devil, and we're gonna give you something that's not, you know, like their twisted version of Christianity, right? And so the medicine went underground. The medicine went underground. And for the fact that As much of it, the essence of it has been maintained and and saved, is is Miraculous.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
So I'm honored that the medicine has chosen me, whose ancestors went through the African slave trade, To bring that medicine back into a form that's usable for who and what we are now. And so as a, that is my job is how do I use a medicine? Because I can't do what You could do in Africa. I'm just not in that environment. I don't have the levels of support I would need. Right? So it's not So much as let me replicate this, but it's like me take the essence of it and let me use it for today. And that's what my book represents, the, the way in which I structure it and present it. That's using the medicine, for today. Yeah.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Yeah. And I think your book goes beyond traditional talk therapy. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Because that can only get us so far.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, really healing. Like I said, that going on a journey into a whole new realm, a whole new world, really isn't an intellectual exercise. It really requires, going through a Change process that you can't know. There's no scripting, and it really is being present to what is going on as it's going on. And that's something in modern culture we don't do.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
We spend a lot of time angsting about the future or staying stuck in the past. We have our flashes of being present when especially when doing something with our hands. It's really amazing. Some musicians out there. Yeah. You know? Artists, Bakers, you know, anybody doing people working in factories even where they've gotta use their hands, that will bring you present. But for the most part, we're not in a presence. But when you take on healing work to consciously transform That pain body from being in charge of your life, you really do have to step into the other world.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
You'd have to step into an otherworldly reality, which is now being called like the 4th and the 5th dimensional consciousness. And, yeah, it's very, very powerful. And there is a mystery about it, which I also love. So there's no real scientific defining of what it is. I think theoretical physicists are doing a better job Talking about parallel universes and talking about, you know, what smaller entities than an atom that exists. They talk about string theory. You know? Yeah. Now we're getting a little closer, to what the other world is about.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
But still, you know, it to me, it's unknowable. It's unfathomable, and that's why it's sacred. To me, that's what secracity is about. Secracity is that for me as a human, There is something I can't know. I can't know. I can I can learn about? I can Understand maybe a little bit of this, but I can't know. Just like with the sun, they they don't really understand the sun. They they understand what what They can figure out, but it's bigger than our human brain can wrap itself around.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Yeah. Yeah. The mystery. And you talked about, you know, going to that unknown land, going into that new world. And

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Absolutely.

Aminata Desert Rose:
I I wonder, about ritual. And, yeah, I wonder if you wanna, Well, you know what it is, Jojipa? Maybe you wanna say something about timelines. Because when you and I have talked, when you have Mhmm. Mentored me, You have asked me, you know, which timeline do I wanna be on. You know what I mean?

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Absolutely. Wanna

Aminata Desert Rose:
take do I wanna take the lower octave, the higher octave. And and, you know, and, just to be what's that word called? Transparent. I have chosen the for the lower octopus. I have

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
troubles in the lower octopus. Process.

Aminata Desert Rose:
And you said that

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
developmental process. Said to

Aminata Desert Rose:
me you said, why did you do that? Because I got on the resentment bus, and and you were like, well, why why did you do that? And I said, I don't know. I didn't wanna get off, Jojo, but I just didn't wanna get off.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Too comfortable.

Aminata Desert Rose:
I so I guess you could say my pain body was in charge because it was like It wasn't. Another thing and another thing and and, you know, and I didn't wanna get off. But then you when I got back to you, you said you You asked me a question about which octave, would I choose. You know what I mean? And so maybe you could talk to us about, Do you if you use this language of time timeline, some people say timeline jumping.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Right.

Aminata Desert Rose:
Tell me tell me what your thoughts are about this.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Right. So if we start to realize that as human beings, we have so much more than this material, Physical experience that there is this nonphysical, metaphysical experience that we're having at the same time. And that's why we can, as humans, go off and think about things and contemplate and create things in a way that we don't see animals doing. We don't see that saying, but we have that. We have this ability to really go into these timelines where There is information for us that goes beyond the physical. And so 4th dimensional timeline is basically Intuition. It's the simplest way to understand it, where I'm knowing something, but I didn't read a book and nobody told me it. But it won't it it leaps out from inside of me because we all have a soul.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Right? So that's a timeline. And then above that would be like 5th dimension. And 5th dimension is like telepathy. So now it's not just that I'm getting messages From me without reading or somebody saying it to me in a in a 5 century way. Telepathy is where I'm actually able to talk to someone, communicate with someone. I may hear their voice, I may not, but I know I'm in communication with them, and they know they're in communication with me, you know. And the experience can be different but there's Only that essence of, yeah, this is a connection going on. It's like when people say, oh, I was just thinking about this person and then the phone rang.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Yeah. Absolutely. So the higher up we go in the timeline zone, the more we're getting Connected to our divinity. And what is our divinity? No. We are not god. There's a lot of people that get confused when they talk about the I am presence and all that. Fan. You are not god.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
You will never be god, and you don't wanna be god. Let god do god's job. You do your job. You came here for a purpose. You got a sacred contract. You need to focus on that. But the beauty of it is where the choice piece comes in is because we have access to Divine consciousness. And divine consciousness is what we aspire to And why we love people like Jesus Christ, why we love the Buddha, why we love Mohammed, why we love even Abraham, You know, why we love Job, you know, why we love Moses, you know, on and on and on.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Kuan Yin and all the You know because these are stories about people who connected with something that wasn't found In the lower timeline of three d reality, and it gave them a consciousness That let them be able to serve and share with other people. See, that's where we're headed to. That it's no longer just about me and my situation, but that I actually am connected to everybody and everything and that I can contribute, you know, that basic indigenous understanding about what community is, yeah, that's why you get initiated So that you can be community centered versus ego centered. And so the ego, yes, it has a place. You have to know, You know, what your three d consciousness is about and, you know, and what your family is about, what your friends are about, You know, what activities you do are about. Yeah. We need our ego. That's really important, but we don't need it To be running the show because it's limited.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And I love Deepak Chopra's, anagram for it. It's he says explanation of it as an anagram, it's Edging God out because you start to think that you're in charge, and we know that in western Culture that is a problem. You know? That's why messing with nuclear energy in the way that it's been done is not okay. And how many more disasters need to happen for us to realize that, you know, that's just it it's not okay. You need to check yourself. There are certain things you need to leave alone. So I talk about the echo, which is engaging cosmic opportunities. So back up into that higher timeline.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
How am I connecting with my divinity, that part of me that knows the truth About how the universe works and that what are we here for? We're here to grow, to heal, and to evolve, and to love, And to be loving. Yeah. And, yes, in order to do that, because we're in a duality, we're gonna get the opposite of that. But then you do what Martin Luther King said. Right? You got to love your enemies. You got to you got to pray for those who would go against you. And why is he saying that? Because he's connected to That higher timeline, he knows the way forward. If you fall into the lower timeline and think that that's gonna bring you to your happy endings in life, oh, you're in trouble.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And this is so well illustrated by the people we see who are billionaires or millionaires and whose life is just a mess. They are not happy. They're not fulfilled. And so they do crazy things like get an island where they can be sexually aberrant with children. You know, like you know. So those are people staying in the lower timeline and not knowing how or choosing To learn how to connect with a higher timeline. So all of that to say is that, you know, we really are here to learn how to ascend in our consciousness during our lifetime. Where I start out as a child should not be where I I end up as an elder.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
I need to be going on journeys of self mastery, Of learning how to love myself and how to share that with other humans, I need to believe That I really can have my happy endings in life. I can have my joy. I can have things work out the way that I need them to. And, absent that, yeah, it's not a it's not a good day. Not a good day at all. Okay.

Aminata Desert Rose:
So we're gonna we're gonna take a break here to get, to hear a word from our sponsor. Thank you all for listening. We'll be right back.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
There's no wrong way to make an altar. There's no wrong way. What it is about is setting an intention, because you are setting up a communication system, and you wanna do that with reverence. You wanna do it in a sacred manner, and secracity really means that there's mystery about it. Yeah. That you're leaving something open to be learned. Yeah. So I tell people start very simply, you know, and then it will grow as and evolve as in the timing that it needs.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
But you start with if it's an elemental ritual, you would start with a cloth that is that color, or sometimes has those colors in it. So say if I make up, an ancestor altar with the fire ritual, I'm gonna get some red cloth. I'm gonna get a red candle that can burn safely. Yeah. Because the man says get they get busy sometimes, so make sure you have a safe Red mantle. Yes. Keep it in glass. Keep it keep stuff around it, because they get happy, you know.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And then an item from that ancestor, or a picture, and or, you know, that you put on there. And then a place where you lay your your questions to them or your, you know, your request for guidance. You know, a little piece of pay sometimes it's a piece of paper. Sometimes I make a little bowl, and I can drop little notes into the bowl. But that's basically it. Very simple. Because, again, it is more about what the intention is, and that's the vibrational energy that goes out. Now, spirit loves beauty.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Spirit loves beauty, and what does that mean? That means that when we take the time to really listen to our creative expression, and that we set that intention. I want this to be attractive. I want it to be pleasing to my eyes and to, whoever sees it, you know. I want it to be beautiful. And, you know, beautiful comes in many different forms. Right? But spirit loves beauty. And so with that intention of simplicity, of beauty, and knowing that It will grow as it needs to over time. Yeah.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
You you you're you're on your way to a good altar. Yeah. Absolutely. So just you keep it simple, and then it just grows. I had an altar in every corner in my house in Milwaukee. Every corner. Every table top, there was office all over the place. You know, because I it would just call me.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Just like, okay, we need something here. Okay. Okay? You know, you start out very minimally. So and alters again, that becomes a portal. Like I said, a communication place, so you treat it with honor. And, some alters you don't keep in the bedroom where you have intimate relationships because that energy of intimate relationships, which again, in Western culture, we don't talk about enough, but it's really connected to really, really powerful energies in the cosmos. And so, you keep your altar in another place rather than a place where you're gonna be physically intimate with another human being. You also keep them where, they are, not going to be, You know, treat it like it's just part of the furniture, or something like that.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
You know, you want it to be some place that is sacred. It stands out. It's You know? Somebody would come in and know immediately, oh, don't touch that. That that's there's something powerful. I don't understand it, but I know that that's not when I need to be touched with, you know. So you really wanna give it honor it with that, because it is it's a, portal for you that will bring you information, bring you energies to support you in what yeah. Staying grounded and in the truth of who you are. That's what we all need right now.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Right? Absolutely. Yeah. So how's the Dagger Medicine Wheel relevant today? That to me is it. It is what I use so that I don't have to take, what's that? Serotonin or any kind of anti depression medication. It is an interrupter of the neurological patterns that my job is to heal and to break through from my core wound, from other things that have occurred in my life. Right? All my traumas, Trauma drama rama. And so this medicine, because it operates at at such a high vibration, is really a wonderful anecdote to turning to pharmaceuticals, and some other things that, And I say this, like, you know, it it can get to a point where they stop working. You know? It's like your body will adjust, Right? And then it's like you need a little more, and then you leave a little more.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And what's so beautiful about the DAGRA Medicine Wheel and what it represents, It's just really helping us really learn that we can transform the energies. We can transform pain. We don't have to maintain it. In Western culture, we do a lot of maintenance of pain. Aren't aren't those places called, I'm managing pain? Pain management centers. Like, why are you Managing that stuff. You need to transform it. Don't be managing it.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Supposed to be the manager thing. I ain't gonna manage. I I don't need no manager, no pain. I wanna be in charge of that. I don't wanna go. You know? And that's what the medicine wheel brings to us. Because, Ultimately, you know, pain is a teacher. It comes to teach us.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
It comes to tell us something. It's an energetic that really is doing that. And so it wants to leave its it wants to give its message and leave. It Hang around. It does not wanna hang around. It's got other work to do. So when we use that perception of what pain, especially emotional pain, is really about, what it's for, then we can free ourselves up from going down the hole with some of these more modern ways of that management of pain. We can actually get ourselves freed up from it.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
I think the other relevant thing I'd say about the DAGRA medicine wheel, really important for me in the times we're in is that it really supports what unity consciousness, what diversity, equity and inclusion and belonging is really about. Because a wheel represents these 5 separate entities, energies, right, that there's no hierarchy with them. Fire's not better than water. You know, Earth isn't better than mineral. They're different, you know? And they actually evolved from each other, you know, if you read the creation story. Right? So there's no hierarchy. And it's about mutual respect and honoring that what is different from me is needed, so that we have this harmony and that we have this balance. And when I've used the wheel with the men that I work with, or others, but definitely with the men, What it did is it freed them up from having to compare themselves to someone in order to feel good about themselves.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
They now had an essential understanding of who they were. And I write about in the book about Max, you know, when he finds out he's a Peacemaker, you know, water person. Oh, my God. It was just like a whole new world opened up to him. He understood a part of himself that he he couldn't understand. And so, to me, the Decorative Medicine Wheel does that. It gives us a way to claim our uniqueness, and to understand and value it. To understand difference, diversity is essential.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
That that's what's going to keep us in balance, cosmically, and on this planet, and also keep the creative juices flowing. Yeah. Because you need all those different elements, right, to to keep moving things around for there to be life, essentially. Yeah. So those are the things that I feel are really powerful with that wheel. Now, why is the Dagram Medicine Wheel set up the way it is. That's a great question. And it's based on it really is that, that elemental, that creation story.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
It's set up on the creation story. And it is I asked my teacher. I asked Melodoma. I said, Melodoma, where does this information come from? Yeah. This is Egypt. Oh, it comes from Egypt. And so when somebody tells me something come from Egypt, then I know that this is stuff beyond our human understanding. And so the medicine wheel and the way it's designed and why it's designed, that wisdom is so ancient and so cosmic.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
There's a reason why the South is connected with fire. There's a reason why the North is connected with cold. Right? There's a reason for that, this pull that we have in, in, in the Earth, you know? The directions, there's reasons for that. There's there's There's something important about why the West is where the sun goes down, and why the East is where it rises. You know? Why things are cyclical. You know, there are no straight lines in space. That's what that that James Webb Telescope, along with the Hubble, is really, really letting us know. Linear is something we be made up as humans.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Why? Because we wanna be in control. You know, you know, nature is too out of control, like what gone what's going on here in Southern California with this rain. You know, to ask people really upset. But this is the nature of our existence, you know? You really don't know. We We we we convince ourselves we know, but we really don't know. But there's this ancient wisdom, this cosmic knowledge, that was given to us, given to humans. Why? Yeah, to help us thrive, to help us be able to be here and to stay here. So I call it cosmic law.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
The agri medicine wheel is set up in cosmic law, and it works. Like, if I were to put fire where water is, it wouldn't work. Something would be out of control. And that's something too that the, theoretical physicists and and and astrologers and scientists have found out when they're studying how the universe works, how this earth works. And they found out that things like the spin on the earth, how it's tilted, our distance between us and the sun, the distance between us and Jupiter. You know, All of these different variables variables are why we can be here and have the life we have. They really haven't found any other blue planets in our solar system, and even in other solar systems that they're seeing into. They're not getting the vibrational, you know, radar light energy that says to them, this really is like Earth.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Or if it it seems like Earth, they always find that there's something that's just not exactly the same. And so what does that mean? That means that there really is a greater order in direction that knows what it's doing and has given us precise for a size measurements for how to be here and be alive. That's why thinking about going to Marsden Meisel such a waste of time. It really is. But that money into how do we make sure Children are fed and how we don't have wars anymore that you know, are taking people's lives. There's enough stuff that can happen naturally for people to die. We don't have to be creating war, you know, but anyway. So again, there is this beautiful mystery to the medicine wheel.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
There's a beautiful mystery to to us as humans. And that's also what I love about indigenous wisdom, that it keeps us in the sacred, in the realm of sacrastity. Because once we think we know, oh, we're in trouble. We are in so much trouble. It's not funny. Now, are ancestors and divine helpers the same? That's a great question. And the answer is no, they are not. They're they're merry they're many many variants of, you know, spirit guides and helpers.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And so I would say the ancestors are 1. What's different with the ancestors are. These are entities who've had their time walking the Earth plane. So they know what the difference is like, because when you're in your real spiritual self, there there is no opposites. You know, it's a unified plane, a unified existence. You can like you get you get an understanding of it, but if you've not Varianced it? You really don't know. That's why people are lined up to come to Earth. That's what Melodoma told me.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
So, oh, yeah. It was aligned. Everyone lined up. They wanna all come down here to Earth, Because then you get to feel these opposites, you get to see the difference. And as Deepak Chopra said from the Vedic teachings, a man born blind at birth can never know darkness because he's never known light. Yeah. And so the Earth is where people's souls come to to grow. And so the ancestors become the special group of divine helpers who have had the experience, and that's why they're such important guides for us.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
That's why they say, don't go down that road. Mm-mm. Don't go that way, judge of pop. Mm-mm. Yeah. This one? Yeah. You can go over here. Like they know.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And that's why I tell people, those ancestors who were the black sheeps of the family, the people who were walking the womb, Those are some of your best spirit guides, because they went there. They know. They get it. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, There are so many divine helpers. I don't even think we experience all of who and what they are. That's why when anybody tells me that I saw this, this showed up, and this and that, Be like, Yeah, yeah, believe it.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Because who am I gonna say that that's not real? If you're having that experience, and you're feeling this is a loving presence, this is a helper. Yeah, it's real. However it shows up. Like a blue light, a green light, you know, whatever. It's all good. How do we recreate the village today? That's beautiful. Number 1, you're never gonna recreate the village in the way it was before, for because the universe is cyclical. Okay? It's meant to experience this thing, and then we're gonna go up the ladder.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Right? So we can get the essence of village. That's what we can recreate. And what is village life really about? I'll tell you, the first thing it's about is that you're clear. You are so clear that your existence is to contribute to that village. Say, that's what initiation is about. It takes you away from it's just me, and it's just my family. Now it's about others. Yeah.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
That I have a responsibility, that what I say, what I do, what I think impacts other people around me. Because, again, we're vibrational creatures. You know? So as I'm moving around, if I'm not checking myself and watching how I'm feeling and how I'm doing, If I'm just going to unconsciously transfer my pain, that's not making a good contribution to the village. That's why, Subbanfu, talked about how oh, yeah. In in in my village, we either doing ritual, Just finish doing ritual, planning ritual, about to do ritual. Just like you know? Because this is the way in which they keep the emotional toxins from taking over. This is how they keep the emotional toxins from taking over. So to me, recreating a village is more about, okay, what's the essence of what needs to happen here? Okay.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
That I'm clear that my job is to be making a contribution. Not just taking, but I have to be giving. And I need to be clear about the ways that I give. And I also need reciprocity, so I need to be allow myself to receive. That's that's how we keep balance. The other thing is is that The Village is a place where you get supported in transforming your emotional toxins. There is nothing like community ritual, and there's nothing like it. It's it's just delicious and wonderful.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And you get so transformed, and you get so open, you get so moved when when we can do that. So how do we do that more? How do we come together more? And to me, a ritual is when we sit down and we share a meal, and we're willing to be inclusive and have an an open conversation and allow people to speak and allow people to be seen, allow people to be heard, that we're we're loving on each other. You know, that to me is a village. That's That's when you're doing ritual. It's also too about legacy. You know, you're you're contributing to what's going on now, but you're also contributing to those who are gonna be there after you're gone. And so, what do I need to do to make sure that I'm giving back, so that the 7th generation that comes after me, this is from the the First Nations people, have, you know, something to some foundation to build upon. You know, so that's information to build upon.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
How do I make sure that there is a legacy going on? That's also village. I think the other important thing about village that I would say for especially in the dark ages of modernity that we are navigating through, as we're moving toward this beautiful age of illumination, age of Aquarius, is to really, really do our work to heal ancestral wounds. And we do need village for that. Yes. I can do my things personally, but I really need a collective commitment for people to be willing to take that on. And then that will ripple out, so that more of us can get beyond these boundaries and these barriers that ancestral and historical trauma has created for so many people. You know, what's going on with Israel and Gaza, that is historical trauma. And getting to see how people are bound to that dory to that belief system.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Yeah. And that's why it's popped up too, because we're supposed to be working on those wounds. And then somebody else holding space for someone rather than saving them, because that's another important, I'll call it a skill that you need to have, if you're gonna have a healthy community. Because functional community is about interdependence, not co dependence. Yeah, Yeah. Interdependence. That means that I self master, I take on full responsibility for who and what I am, what I think, what I say, what I do. I don't make anybody responsible for that.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
I've let go of victim consciousness. The world is out to gift me, not get me. Right? And then everyone committing to that level of consciousness. Right? Yeah. That's holding space. That's holding space. Feeling sorry for someone is when you go into that savior mode. And we don't realize to that, You know, we're saving people every day just by showing up, being in gratitude, being with an open heart, thinking in the positive, choosing that love over fear.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Oh, you save them a lot of people just doing that. That's what it's really that's how you really save someone. If you need to. If you get called to take on some more three-dimensional behaviors. You just wanna make sure it's in alignment. And what does that mean? That means that I'm called to do it. I really feel like I have to do this. I can do it, you know? It's not like it's really worked for me.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
It's like, yeah, I got this, I can do this. And that I'm not looking for anything in return. Yeah. Because once you set a condition on it, the predator got you. The devil got you. That's what we call the devil. Devil, the predator, that energy. The dark matter energy, that's what it's called, the energy that's designed to do what? Yeah, pull you apart, pull you out of your your spirit.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
That we need gravity, and that's the other thing that, you know, community does for us. It gives us a grounding. It gives us a gravity, pulls us in. I'm sorry. I've talked until it's, like, 4 minutes before we have to finish, but I wanted to ask if there were any questions and oh my god. You killed it. Yes. You rocked that, man.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Oh my god. I'm just glad it's gonna be recorded because it was so much good wisdom. Yes. Thank you. Oh my god. My pleasure. I can't tell you. I have to tell you all this.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
Earlier this year Earlier last year, in the middle by the middle of last year, I I had gone off my tracks in terms of how I thought I was needing to serve. Because I've been in human services for so long, and and, so I was doing a project, and I really realize got to a point to realize that I was over people's head, that they weren't really ready to take in the the information. And so I pulled myself out of the project, because I realized, like, you know, that will be painful. You're trying to get them to Be what they're not ready to be. Just l let it go, leave it alone, you know? So I did. I gracefully exited from that. And then I recommitted myself to being a full time shaman and to stop me. I wasn't organizational development consultant that really I'm a full time shaman.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And if I do some organizational development, they gotta learn the medicine wheel. If they don't wanna learn the medicine wheel, then I can't be there. So you all are part of this validation that spirit has been giving me since August that says, see, when you recommit to doing what you supposed to be doing. We will send you the people who can receive the information to take it in and to use it, you know? And that's the other beautiful thing, a message I wanna say to you. Please, please know. Use my book, take it, adapt it, use it however you feel called to do. That this isn't plagiarism. Otherwise, I'm in trouble because this is ancient wisdom from people that came from Burkina Faso, from the village of Dano.

Jojopahmaria Nsoroma:
And every day, I'm using this. Yeah. I'm taking something, but I'm also giving something back, because this enlivens them, that this medicine can still be of service.